Talk:Sixth generation of video game consoles

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Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:History of video game consoles (third generation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 01:59, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Xavix: Deletion from main section[edit]

I have never heard of this console before, and I'm an obsessed hobbyist. It does not belong as a peer of the main consoles of the sixth generation (dreamcast/PS2/xbox/gamecube), it should be in the section for "other consoles".

The reasons for this:

 * Lack of recognition.
 * Lack of popularity or wide distribution at time of release.
 * Extremely cheap at release, far less than normal for a new console.
 * Lack of third party support for games.
 * Very unimpressive hardware, more suited to the mid 1990s, not the early to mid 2000s.
 * Citations often go to sales oriented page, or a different wiki style site, and are wrong (1kb ram can't be possible).

In summary, this is not a "real" game console, and the sudden inclusion of it on wikipedia along with the offerings by billion dollar corporations smells more like advertising by the manufacturer (who still sells it). Unless somebody objects, I'll remove it from the main table. If this is a peer of the big four, then so are a dozen other bargain bin fillers like the hyperscan or some of the many wii clones.

JoshuaPearce (talk) 23:07, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

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Conforming to Article Structure of Other Generations[edit]

The format at the end of the summary used for the similar articles (1st-5th) are bullet points following a statement like:

"Some features that distinguished fifth generation consoles from fourth generation consoles include: "

I don't know what to put as bullet points in this article or the Seventh Gen and Eighth Gen. Though I will add some hidden text in each. Thanks a lot! Houdinipeter (talk) 22:34, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

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Mega-CD reception[edit]

The article's section on the Dreamcast says that the Sega CD was a commercial failure and damaged Sega's reputation. This is inaccurate for a number of reasons:

  • The Mega-CD's article says that some saw it only signaling the beginning of the downfall of Sega's name, not that it did.
  • The Nomad's article, however, directly says its poor sales were because of mistrust of the Sega brand, which was in fact damaged by the 32X and the cancellation of Sonic X-treme.
  • The Sega CD's article says nowhere that the system was a commercial failure; only that it was poorly supported by Sega.
  • The CD's entry on List of commercial failures in video gaming was entirely unsourced, so I removed it a few months back. Naturally, it would have been quite easy to find sources saying that it was a financial failure.

I've tried to correct this... starting talk page discussion since Ferret has reverted three times now. ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 17:23, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

I now realize you tried to do this a couple months ago too. For this recent edit, only twice did I revert, and only because you didn't follow WP:BRD after the first one. It's clear that Sega CD was not a successful item, selling only 2 million units, with lukewarm reception and multiple sources calling it the beginning of mistrust and downfall. This is exactly the chain of events this sentence is attempting to highlight. Beyond that, we're talking in context of mistakes Sony made in the home console market, of which the Sega CD is a part, while the Nomad was a handheld. You can't say that its inaccurate to state the Sega CD "damaged Sega' reputation", and in the next bullet point acknowledge that sources call it the beginning of reputation issues.
Honestly though, we're talking about the wrong issue. That entire paragraph is wrong and strangely worded. It's got multiple CN tags and tries to cast the Dreamcast as a commercial success that restored Sega's good name, when in fact it was yet another commercial failure and led to them leaving the hardware market entirely. -- ferret (talk) 17:41, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
Alright, I'll help source it. I've looked over it and it looks like this may be an easy fix; there are sources on articles like Sonic Adventure that say the Dreamcast restored Sega's reputation. ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 17:47, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
I mean, sort of. Dreamcast had a better run than the Sega releases in between it and teh Genesis, but it still sold poorly and only had a lifespan of about 2-3 years. I would say all four were damaging to the Sega brand - after the success of the Genesis, all four (CD, 32X, Saturn, and Nomad) were commercial failures, none of them taking off as Sega intended. I would think that the Nomad would probably be the least of them, since it wasn't so much its own product as it was a reworked version of the Genesis in the twilight of its lifespan. The Sega CD may have only been the start of the decline, but it was still definitely part of it. Sergecross73 msg me 17:52, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

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Dreamcast expansion[edit]

I'm considering reverting a lot of the expansion today to the Dreamcast section. We have to remember this article is a quick overview of the consoles, not the main article. The amount of text dedicated to the Dreamcast was already beyond the others, and is now a considerable length. -- ferret (talk) 21:50, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

I've now rolled this back, as a conflict of interest has been declared. Sega employees should not be making these large expansions about Sega products. And again, this article should be covering the Dreamcast in a shorter summary style. This is not Dreamcast. -- ferret (talk) 12:40, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

@ferret regarding this;

I disagree with you on the hundreds of words actually making up for others mistakes regarding for example sales figures. The Dreamcast PRODUCTION as in "console manufacturing" ended, as did general hardware support (10years), while the stated sales figures for the console (which no longer lives, I see no reason to COI. I did not work @ Sega in 1998, 99 or 2000...

However, I agree with the sources - I apologize for simply taking the easiest way out while finding them.

Oh, and facts like hardware capabilities (vs software capabilities: two entirely different things) is not mentioned and is a very valid comparison between all of the consoles. The site I referrred to, Segaretro, has excellent information on the topic as well as documentation, benchmarks, publicly announced specs etc. The name of the site does not justify how reliable the source may be.

And also: I Agree with you, rolling back after my rather huge and clumsy addition to this page regarding all consoles (and not Dreamcast as you mentioned) and it kind of became a mess... However, a simple, yet non-technical as well as technical feature list compared between the ompetitors of the 6th gen I think would be a welcome addition. Note that in every edit I have made, I have corrected the following:

  • Discontinuation date (no, SUPPORT and U.S market manufacturing of consoles STOPPED - Consoles were still produced, manufactured - AND, sold. AS new. This is where the new BIOS revisions eliminating MIL-CD support started to see the light of day in Japan. Or, take a look at the (supposedly) 2000 limited edition, SECOND print Dreamcast R7 retail version. AS in, a limited edition, based on a limited edition, where they manufactured 2000 consoles just to keep consumers busy. This all ended in 2008, and I have sales figures from 2009 from the fiscal year of 2008 reporting -alot- more than what is stated here because support for the DC, by Sega of America (but ONLY hardware wise! This page makes no difference between continuing developing games while keeping the production of consoles on hold because of inventory. I would also like to point out that this is no longer a product Sega is selling, so commercial as in some kind of hidden agenda here is unvalid - simply because everything that is being done on the Dreamcast scene today is done by everyone else but Sega. For now.

Oh, and yeah - The average polygon count of the Dreamcast was at around the figures I have previously stated, topping the PS2's avg. score 3 whole years after the release of the PS2 - because of HARDWARE capabilities, and not software. As in, in-built anti-aliasing, d3d bump-mapping, a Z-buffer, tiled deferred rendering (again, a comparison wouldnt have killed anyone.) as well as the very provable fact that Dolby Surround (upmixable stereo-encoded soundtracks) existed in games as I imagine the Dolby Surround logo would not come up in some sports games. Dolby Surround is upmixable by Pro Logic and Pro Logic II, making this no different than the PS2's capabilities for example, except for the lack of Dolby Digital in cutscenes and DVD's ofcourse.

But yeah, work for Sega, passionate about video-game consoles, platform specialist is my current position - I know a thing or two that can be proved regarding the polygon-count on-average from all of the consoles (*SPOILER ALERT*) and the overall most powerfull console of this era is *not* the Xbox but rather, the GameCube because of its PowerPC architecture as well as hw-offloading capabilities much like the Dreamcast except that the Dreamcast had different (and actually, no, not a COI - more efficient transportation route of polygons in that they where transferred directly to the VideoRAM of the console unlike the others where they had to store polygons in it's main-ram. Xbox suffered from this, and per console, Sega lost the LEAST amount of money (except for Sony obviously) per hardware sale of the remaining competitors.

And yeah, officially legal, published games (no, not homebrew - something entirely different) where a Open-Source SDK has been developed, and as of 2018 from 2002, the console has been getting stable and quite many both indie but also more serious games released just simply because of the fact that it's allowed - the licensing says so. So the OFFICIAL DREAMCAST game ever produced is NOT Karous, not Trigger Heart Elexia, but JoshProds Studios which have released numerous.

I also think its worth mentioning that the console has a lot more features than what appears in the table below. Well well, thats all for now. Hope I get to add info later on, with better references and shorter chapters of information in regards to what topic is being discussed. A classic one is the highest (480p) native output resolution for the DC, but yet the average polygon-count being higher for 3 years - according to you guys, longer than the DC lived. (Remember discontinuation and abandoning a console is two entirely different things, and at the VERY VERY least, closing the markets in a region-specific way like 2001 for the USA, 2002 for the PAL-areas and 2008 in Japan. Also, interestingly, despite having to keep track of both the modems' state AND using stuff like DMA, skipping a step


Hope you get to reconsider!

C you soon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Petter3k (talkcontribs) 02:07, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Ferret here, and would have made the same decision had he not beat me to it.
  1. There is a WP:UNDUE issue to be expanding the Dreamcast information so much in this page. You’re putting too much focus on just one part of the articles scope.
  2. If you’re a past Sega employee, you’ve got a WP:COI.
  3. Many of your edits do not comply with Wikipedia’s rules - unreliable sources from fan sites, using Wikipedia as a source (a big no-no see WP:USERG), or info that is straight up unsourced.
I recommend discussing potential additions on the talk page before adding them. And splitting up your edits into much much smaller additions so people don’t have to remove all of your work to remove the issues. Discussing individual smaller parts will be easier too. Sergecross73 msg me 02:35, 16 September 2018 (UTC)